state department that makes a cameo appearance in the book, quoted asking, if we call what happened in rwanda genocide, how does it play for us in what were then the mid term elections of 1994. well, there's a pattern here as we see. one is a reluctance to have america be engaged in certain issues, and the second one is politicizing foreign policy issues because they might hurt the president's political stance. >> paul: and you want a secretary of state, if you're-- well, the american people want a secretary of state who is some more independent judgment and not thinking so much about the politics, is that the point? >> that would be one thing that you would look for in the secretary of state. >> paul: sorry for stating the obvious. >> the national interests and not the president's mid term when it comes to iran and north koreas of the world. >> paul: is that enough to stop, mary the president from getting the secretary of state that he wants and with john kerry mentioned the senator from massachusetts as the alternative to susan rice, would he be any better. >> i'm surprised that the preside